tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post2334541818995582605..comments2023-06-21T06:00:43.633-05:00Comments on Biological Ramblings: The Winter Wren is multiple species!slybirdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-41318079178700105592016-10-28T13:01:58.912-05:002016-10-28T13:01:58.912-05:00Citations are right there in the post. The split c...Citations are right there in the post. The split comes from this paper:<br />http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2008.03769.x/abstractslybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-49924560583666441732016-10-28T12:54:51.278-05:002016-10-28T12:54:51.278-05:00Is this split published anywhere? I would like to ...Is this split published anywhere? I would like to cite some of this information but haven't found anything on JStor or the like. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244588131860592477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-90082073291409113512010-07-31T15:27:31.378-05:002010-07-31T15:27:31.378-05:00Thank you, Dick and Anonymous!Thank you, Dick and Anonymous!slybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-12386366828240188172010-07-31T15:18:13.359-05:002010-07-31T15:18:13.359-05:00Come in a bit late on this one, but to answer this...Come in a bit late on this one, but to answer this: "I haven’t been able to look into their taxonomic references on the subject, but uBio says Troglodytes troglodytes was described by Linnaeaus 1758 and Troglodytes aedon by Vieillot 1809, so I’m not entirely certain why Winter Wren is the one that needs to be changed"<br /><br />– Linnaeus first described it as <i>Motacilla troglodytes</i>; Vieillot then transferred it to his new genus <i>Troglodytes</i>, along with his new species <i>Troglodytes aedon</i>. Vieillot selected <i>T. aedon</i> as the type species of his new genus, so if the genus is split up, the name <i>Troglodytes</i> stays with that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-91799631404386445212010-07-28T10:11:31.064-05:002010-07-28T10:11:31.064-05:00I think Linnaeus first named the Winter Wren Motac...I think Linnaeus first named the Winter Wren Motacilla troglodytes, so the generic name was probably coined by Vieillot.Dick Canningshttp://dickcannings.shawwebspace.ca/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-8528180799220384942008-08-06T08:20:00.000-05:002008-08-06T08:20:00.000-05:00Well this still has to get through the AOU checkli...Well this still has to get through the AOU checklist committee, so an 'official' split might be a ways off yet. That just gives me time to get out west and find one for myself :)slybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-63927998410739371632008-08-06T08:05:00.000-05:002008-08-06T08:05:00.000-05:00Excellent explanation. I'm looking forward to addi...Excellent explanation. I'm looking forward to adding this armchair lifer!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-19697231656853408552008-07-29T10:24:00.000-05:002008-07-29T10:24:00.000-05:00Thanks, John. There are definitely systematists ou...Thanks, John. There are definitely systematists out there who would use the six mtDNA lineages of the phylogeny as the definition of six species of Winter Wren. I'm glad this work was done on our wrens and I can't wait to find out the situation in Eurasia.slybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-24663328025669007082008-07-28T07:50:00.000-05:002008-07-28T07:50:00.000-05:00This is a really good discussion of the issues inv...This is a really good discussion of the issues involved in making a split. I had already read that a split in winter wren might be warranted - probably in one of the barcode of life publications. I think that the results of the barcoding project favored splitting the eastern, western, and Old World populations. It is interesting that at least one of the proposed splits was confirmed by behavioral research.<BR/><BR/>This will not cause too much of an identification problem since the ranges are so distinct. Plus wrens are so hard to see that most birders will probably just use the songs most of the time.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I'm in favor of anything that increases my life list without me having to do extra work. :-)John B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00163297234733313179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-26782224138833338702008-07-27T14:15:00.000-05:002008-07-27T14:15:00.000-05:00I recently found one of the original papers that f...I recently found one of the original papers that finally realized there were two species involved in Traill's Flycatcher (c. 1963). I've been thinking about writing a review of that discovery, but I have too much on my plate right now. I have a ton of blogging to cram in over the next few weeks to take care of my backlog, then I head south.<BR/><BR/>Crossbills are indeed an incredibly complex situation. People are working it out slowly but surely. Check out Craig Benkman's work if you're interested.slybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-4245654632344923132008-07-27T13:57:00.000-05:002008-07-27T13:57:00.000-05:00Just happened to be at my computer and your post p...Just happened to be at my computer and your post popped up on Google reader. : )<BR/><BR/>Good point about Traill's FC, That was before I really paid attention to that stuff so I accepted the split without much thought, but I imagine at the time that was different.<BR/><BR/>With the relatively distinct ranges, Winter/Pac Wren is not so intimidating as the Red Crossbill split that's been tossed around for so many years.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04649782420633788927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-32978543076764403472008-07-27T13:35:00.000-05:002008-07-27T13:35:00.000-05:00Wow, that was fast! Thanks!Have you been following...Wow, that was fast! Thanks!<BR/><BR/>Have you been following the subspecies debate on ID-Frontiers? This is exactly why more birders should pay attention to the matter. And if birders handled the Traill's Flycatcher split OK, they can deal with this. At least there are plumage differences between these guys!slybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08799898402199267203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2100227705891731973.post-495690607879857762008-07-27T13:23:00.000-05:002008-07-27T13:23:00.000-05:00Really nice write-up yet again, Nick. You have a ...Really nice write-up yet again, Nick. You have a real knack at boiling down the scientific for the layman.<BR/><BR/>I'll bet all the folks in the Great Plains and Rocky Mt states are wringing their hands at the possibility of having to straighten out vagrant Winter Wren records...<BR/><BR/>The point where ornithology and recreational birding collide just got a little hairier. : )Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04649782420633788927noreply@blogger.com